Hi. I am trying to register a WM300 Dodge Power Wagon from 1969 in France and the government wants a certificate saying that the vehicle was legally allowed to be sold and driven in France. Does anyone have such a thing or know how to contact Dodge to ask them? The Dodge dealerships here just wash their hands of my requests and the only other way to get it registered would be to do a complete restoration and register it as a collection vehicle which is almost impossible because it was a Dutch military vehicle originally. I really would appreciate some help from the Dodge community if possible.
Certificate of Conformity
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Cranky1
Banned Old Stinky Fart
Looks like someone already restored it because it's way too nice to be a survivor.....anyways, nice truck! And I have no idea which way to turn on getting it registered. Is it possible to trace it back to other owners to find out if it's been restored? If paper work is needed to prove restoration, that might be an avenue to getting proof of that....? Welcome to the site!
It was fully restored in 1993, last legally on the road in Denmark in 2017 (35,507 original kilometers) then bought and sat in a barn in Norway until last July ( the owner is a collector and stored it safely). It was originally bought new for the Danish military and had a gmc benhur dump body. Even with the past registration the french government doesn't care that it was already road legal in the European Union. The fact that it went to Norway makes it an import once again and now it's turning into a nightmare to get back on the road. It's literally all original aside from the diamond plate on the running boards, bigger military rear view mirrors and no hydraulics for the bed ( I can't find a rear PTO unit).
Cranky1
Banned Old Stinky Fart
You might sign into FBBO or even FABO or both....lots of people at those sites and would think there would be someone there that might know what to do. There are links to both of those sites at the bottom of the page and are owned by the same person that owns this truck site. Post up what you have here in the General Forum since there's no forums there for this type of vehicle. And if anyone gives you any crap about it just tell them I said it was ok! I go by Cranky at both of those sites....
Philoctet
Active Member
You need to contact Fiat but I am not sure that Power Wagon were sold new in France. The best way to drive your truck in France is to get a title for collection vehicle. You don't need to make a complète restoration for that. As it looks on the picture, your truck is registrable as a collection vehicle. The certificate of conformity you need to register as a normal vehicle has to be a French one saying that the truck complies with French rules. You will not find this document here.
En France et en Europe c'est Fiat qui détient le groupe Chrysler dont dépend Dodge. Tu peux te rendre sur leur site dédié aux homologations Homologation de votre véhicule FIAT CHRYSLER ALFA ROMEO LANCIA JEEP et tenter dans un premier temps d'obtenir un certificat de conformité via la première rubrique "immatriculer en France un véhicule immatriculé à l'étranger" pour obtenir une carte grise normale mais à mon avis tu vas être obligé de passer par une carte grise collection. Pour cela tu peux demander l'attestation à Fiat ou à la FFVE. J'ai fait les 2. Fiat est beaucoup plus rapide mais un peu plus cher que la FFVE. Le calcul des CV fiscaux est souvent plus élevé chez Fiat et je n'ai jamais réussi à obtenir un PTRA différent du PTAC en passant par eux. Si tu n'as pas l'intention de tracter et que tu veux faire ça vite sans te prendre la tête Fiat c'est bien.
En France et en Europe c'est Fiat qui détient le groupe Chrysler dont dépend Dodge. Tu peux te rendre sur leur site dédié aux homologations Homologation de votre véhicule FIAT CHRYSLER ALFA ROMEO LANCIA JEEP et tenter dans un premier temps d'obtenir un certificat de conformité via la première rubrique "immatriculer en France un véhicule immatriculé à l'étranger" pour obtenir une carte grise normale mais à mon avis tu vas être obligé de passer par une carte grise collection. Pour cela tu peux demander l'attestation à Fiat ou à la FFVE. J'ai fait les 2. Fiat est beaucoup plus rapide mais un peu plus cher que la FFVE. Le calcul des CV fiscaux est souvent plus élevé chez Fiat et je n'ai jamais réussi à obtenir un PTRA différent du PTAC en passant par eux. Si tu n'as pas l'intention de tracter et que tu veux faire ça vite sans te prendre la tête Fiat c'est bien.
Ffve says they will not give me a certificate as long as the truck is not completely restored which goes against everything I had already heard about this process. Apparently I can't argue with them because they have the final word. I honestly feel like they are persecuting me by the fact that they refused my photos and asked that I redo everything even though I had supplied them with everything they had asked for. I appreciate your help and will try going the fiat route with hopefully better results. Thanks very much!
7mopar
Well-Known Member
I hope you get it resolved. I would think it would have left a paper trail in France before it left and that some type of inspection would clear this up.
But government officials on this side of the big pond can even be a royal pain.
But government officials on this side of the big pond can even be a royal pain.
7mopar
Well-Known Member
Have you tried getting pictures of the last restoration to submit or would it require date and location documents also.
7mopar
Well-Known Member
Photo shop!
Philoctet
Active Member
Honnesly I don't see any reason to refuse except if the engine is swap. I never had problem with FFVE except one time with a European custom invoice. They asked me for a French 846A instead. I had to explain them European customs rules ;o)
I can supply them with any customs paperwork because I already have a quitus fiscal. The engine is still the original 251ci that the truck came with. The biggest problem I have been having is that the truck was last registered in Denmark in 2017(?) but then exported to Norway where it was basically a farm vehicle and never registered for the road.
Philoctet
Active Member
Yes they had to be sure that you don't use pictures from another vehicle. You just have to put a news paper or a magazine on the windshield and on the seat before you take your picture. Very easy to satisfy
For the paper work, it depends of what kind of demand you send to Fiat. If you ask for an Attestation Vehicule de Collection, you can use it directly on ANTS. If you ask for a conformity and this one is not complete you will have to pass tests with the DREAL. I read that French postal services bought about 200 power wagon for service work in the moutain. If this French homologation still exist it can help but it will not be enough because those power wagon were equiped with diesel Perkins. DREAL tests are very expansive and the vehicle has to perform like a new when it left the factory. In 2005 it cost me 1500€ for a Mexican beetle, I think today they can ask more than 3000€ for the same. Many VW beetle were sold in France but not with the same engine than Mexican beetle. That's why I had to pass new tests for homologation.
The Dreal is what costs 1500 to 3000? I'm already into this truck for over 50,000 euros with all new brakes and drums, tires, shipping from Norway, customs taxes... That's not even including the barn I bought to store it in. I couldn't ask for a vehicle de collection with fiat because they want a picture with the licence plates but I don't have that. All I have is an orange sticker for Norway farm vehicles but it doesn't correspond to the numbers on the last carte gris from Denmark. Nothing is easy with this whole process especially since the FFVE are being dip sticks....
Philoctet
Active Member
The answer you will received from FIAT in order to get a normal title can be a certificate of conformity, a certificate of non conformity or a partial conformity. In this 2 last cases you will have to pass tests at UTAC Montlhery to get a complete conformity. Go and see your local DREAL desk before. They will tell you if they accept your demand for a normal title. I am quite sure they will advise you to make a collection title. For the pictures to FIAT or FFVE, give them what you have, the invoice and the Norway sticker or the title and the invoice. Many US cars have no plate when they arrive in Europe, it is not a problem.
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